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PFF approach to youth development lacking?

29 posts from 7 voices
  • Started 9 months ago by teddys dad
  • Latest reply from HRK1
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  1. teddys dad

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    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    i believe it is admirable to identify talent at a young age and nurture them with specific goals in mind. and the plans for the little azkals seems a good one - aiming for the 2022 u23 qualifiers.

    I wonder though what the specific plans are of the pff? in two years, these boys will be 15 and no longer able to play in u13 competitions. will the focus then switch to u16, leaving behind and forgetting about new u13 prospects?

    what i am trying to say is that all of this, while admirable, smacks of tactical efforts without a strategic approach to youth development. what are the long term considerations? how will the pff encourage an enduring pipeline of talent, not just follow one bunch of kids? there is a great deal of money being made available by FIFA, shouldn't these be directed towards a strategic program for youth which creates an enduring process, rather than just flying a bunch of kids around to play some friendly matches?

    I am not trying to be negative, but I feel there are very important questions here with the future of football at stake. I do not think it is too demanding to expect a strategic approach to youth development...

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
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    Posted 9 months ago #
  2. soccerpride

    mod
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 274

    I concur...

    Pride*Passion*Perseverance
    Posted 9 months ago #
  3. Azkals

    The First Azkal
    Joined: Oct '08
    Posts: 1,311

    I don't have good knowledge about youth football development. But I can share something.

    I think one of the things that would hamper a kid's football developement is his school, the usual schooling. In the football developed nations, kids would be assured of professional football career, unlike here, since we still don't have established premier league, kids would to go to the universities and colleges.

    Making football known in the Philippines.
    Posted 9 months ago #
  4. teddys dad

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    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    yes agree, i think a developed professional league would certainly help. this would give local youth something to aspire to locally. and, perhaps if they are good enough, they could be drafted for the national team. in some ways it is unfair to expect the PFF to bear the full burden of youth development. In other countries there is far ranging infrastructure from the youth level up to and including the professional leagues and their academies.

    But, again, since the PFF has "dipped their toe in the pool" and made moves for youth development via the "little azkals", I think it is natural to wonder what the broader plan is? Sometimes I really wonder what the focus is, when I see a huge billboard on EDSA promoting the "little azkals" when I think the money for this could have perhaps been better spent on broadening out the programs... again it all comes down to having a strategic direction and then implementing those things which support / enable the strategies.

    But is there a strategy?

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 9 months ago #
  5. teddys dad

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    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    Here is some good news: "...technical adviser Krautzen Eckhardt is being sent to help assess and advise with the grassroots and youth programs of the PFF." Mr. Eckhardt is apparently coming from Germany to assist. Hopefully the PFF will find some time to give us the big picture...

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. soccerpride

    mod
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 274

    It is very difficult to put the burden on any one organization, and you are correct Teddys Dad, since PFF is putting this on their radar, it is fair to question them directly regarding youth.

    However, futbol at the community level, "grass roots" right now is where a lot of the magic needs to start happening. This is where you are going to start picking up your raw talent. If you focus mostly on one organization, it runs the potential of becoming elitist, something like "little Freddy's dad donated X amount, therefore he is part of the program." maybe the Philippines has not seen this yet, but unfortunately here in the states it is "pay to play." Yes you develop some really good talent, but we miss a lot of great prospects simply cause it is just not affordable...

    Futbol has some ways to go here, and in the Philippines, but wouldn't it be great to learn from others mistakes, and put together something superior based on how successful programs around the country run? I know money is a factor, but little by little... CHEERS!!!

    Pride*Passion*Perseverance
    Posted 9 months ago #
  7. EricXtian

    senior member
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 53

    when i was on elementary being involve at Milo Best soccer program it was on my mind that football is strong in our country because i can see there are many kids playing football. when i was in highschool my school dont have a football program basketball lang, in my mind it is probably like that because my school is a "middleclass" school. when i went to college at UST i was shocked that there is also a lot of people that is into football for the sports is a big thing every intramurals, at least in our college.

    what is my point here. it is hard to dvelop a youth program because the sport of football is not really that embedded in the consciousness of the philippine middle class. lets admit it at least here in metro manila you have to be in some program like the Milo Best, studying in some private school that can afford to have a football field, or in a university that again can afford to have a football field to be able to play football. yes we have places like Borotoc Nuevo where football is played at fiestas like basketball. but not to offend anyone from the visayas but for the country to be conscious about the game it must be developed in the rest of luzon. some of my cousins dont like the football for they consider an elitist sports. a game that is played by ateneo students, they dont play it on provincial schools in towns like cabanatuan, infanta, or lucena.

    one sad thing that we have to admit that most of the filipinos that like football are the filipinos that have the opportunity to play football and a great majority of them are the bourgeois. if we want to have a good youth program we must move our football to the masses, like those programs in tondo. everytime i see a provicial highschool or elementary school at the provinces i cant help see some vacant grassy field or lot inside the school premises. all it takes is give this kids a football and two goal posts and there you have it, grassroot. it would be enough to give interest for the sports for young kids and i am sure the rest will follow.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  8. HRK1

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 272

    I think I've said it on another thread. You are right.

    I learnt football with Don Bosco Mandaluyong in the 70's. Most of the kids who knew what football was were kids who went to Don Bosco Mandaluyong or Makati, Ateneo, La Salle, San Beda, Xavier etc. Not all pinoy families can send their kids to these schools. Hence, the general population of metro manila wouldnt know what football is. Also, PBA is a metro manila domain.
    However, in visayas, football have always been the sport kids knew. I also know some people from visayas that do not support PBA because they see it as a metro manila sport empire.

    During my time with DB, inter-high school comps were under BOFA (Boys Official FA) or RIFA (Rizal FA). However, these competitions are dis-jointed and I wouldnt call it real grassroots, because there is no progression. I remember that football comp was played during the last semester of the school year. Football camp is also held during the summer vacations. Then during the first semester of the following year will be the intramurals.

    I say dis-jointed because these comps does not lead to anywhere. The winner does not compete further nor do outstanding player are selected for representative sides. There was no elite program for outstanding players.

    "Do or do not. There is no try" (Master Yoda)
    Posted 7 months ago #
  9. teddys dad

    mod
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    so hrk1, this brings me back to my first post. since the pff has the closest links to fifa, who supposedly are investing in football development here, again the question... what is the vision and strategic plan?

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 7 months ago #
  10. HRK1

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 272

    From FIFA.com:

    http://www.fifa.com/mm/goalproject/PHI_ENG.pdf

    Does the PFF have an official website? I can't find it. The PFF is now on the second FIFA Goal Program funding. Surely by now, the PFF have some sort of website telling readers of how the PFF is "spending" the funds, what they have done with the funds and what programs have they initiated.

    "Do or do not. There is no try" (Master Yoda)
    Posted 7 months ago #
  11. teddys dad

    mod
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    HAHAHA the PFF website story goes way back, and is the stuff of legend. in short, no they do not have a site although from postings on other forums I thought they were close back in August, then things seemed to die down... anyone know more detail?

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 7 months ago #
  12. teddys dad

    mod
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    HAHAHA the PFF website story goes way back, and is the stuff of legend. in short, no they do not have a site although from postings on other forums I thought they were close back in August, then things seemed to die down... anyone know more detail?

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 7 months ago #
  13. soccerpride

    mod
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 274

    Hmm...I wonder what story the PFF is telling FIFA to continue receiving said funding?

    Pride*Passion*Perseverance
    Posted 7 months ago #
  14. teddys dad

    mod
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    ...and soccerpride has hit the nail on the head. obviously the pff must be telling a compelling story to fifa. why can't they share this with the rest of us? seems pretty simple to me.

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 7 months ago #
  15. HRK1

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 272

    Teddysdad,

    What exactly do you think should happen or what you want to happen in a poor third world country like PHI, with regards to football development (in a country that did not really embrace this sport since post war period)?

    Do you want a Brazilian, Argentina style grassroots (where youth coaches go to the slum areas and identify talented kids)? Its not going to happen in PHI. We do not have the skill to identify talent (yet) in this sort of situation. Yes, idealistic it may be (and it worked for Brazil and Argentina), but PHI is not currently in that position.

    Do you want a German or English style grassroots (where there are numerous youth football academies, plus every school have their own football development program)? Do you think PHI is at this level of grass roots? We are very very far from this level.

    Even the FIFA funding cannot deliver this. One factor is that football have never been in our "culture" or mentality and that is one wall that is very hard to crack into.

    http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=738027&publicationSubCategoryId=110

    Here is a link about my former Alma Mater - Don Bosco winning the Milo Olympics (an inter-high school, inter-regional) competition. Don Bosco do compete in other regions purely on the grounds that comps at this level is somewhat non-existent at highschool level (PS: there are some, but DB's standards is far too high), hence the school competes in Visayas (Cebu or iloilo) where football is THE game.

    As a school administered by italian priests, our football program is modelled from the italian system (since I was there in the 70's). Maybe send your kids to DB Makati to benefit from a good football program (PS: DB offers good education apart from football). With all the things you've seen, including the alaska program, yes most football program in metro-manila seems to be 'commercial' (practically kick a ball, you think your are playing football, but what its all about is kick a ball - no structure, no team play, no theoretical lesson on what FB is).

    As part of the PFF grassroots - we've had U-13 and U-14 compete in the Australian Kanga Cup in Australia (March 2011) and the Malaysia Invitational (July 2011). PS: most of the kids are either from Visayas who are affiliated with Visayas teams and schools with football programs (ie DB, Ateneo and La Salle).

    Soccerpride,

    From what I know the FIFA funding is a 15 year program (it started prior to the 2005 SEA Games - the rookie season of the YH and Greatwich brothers). 6 years on, Azkals have come a long way (from deep deep bottom to nearly coming up the surface). We now have a women's team (including a U-19 girls team). Our U-16 and U-19 boys have also competed (for the first time) in their age group within AFC or ASEAN comps.

    So this year alone, we've had the Azkals, the malditas, U-19 girls, U-19, U-16,U-14, U-13 boys compete in various international comps (some for the first time experiencing the very big gap between us and other Asian countries) but thats a start. I've never seen that before in my life. So, its been 6 years, some people say that is too long to see outcomes, but I always say PHI football have to come out of the very very very bottom and whats required will not happen overnight.

    So, I hope with all the things you've read here (or from me), I hope you stay put in the US, because you aint gonna get what your sons is doing now here in PHI. Don't be blinded by what you read on the net (about half-american-pinoys being a success in PHI, because not all do). I actually know of some parents regretting ever coming back to PHI because their kids do not mentally cope living in a "foreign" country. Because, these kids are also half "overseas" kids, their expectations and standards they got used to are non-existent in PHI from their point of view and it may impact on their future out-look in life.

    "Do or do not. There is no try" (Master Yoda)
    Posted 7 months ago #
  16. soccerpride

    mod
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 274

    @HRK1...I LOVE your passion...and your research. You are obviously well versed in what is going on in PI.

    Regarding moving...it's not going to happen, at least any time soon. My husband has pretty much said what you just posted. Mexico too is a third world country, however, much closer to the U.S. then PI. Plus, I know how the system works in Mexico, having grown up in and around it. However, this too is not an option any time soon. I am pretty much here in the U.S. until at least the two older are done with high school.

    Pride*Passion*Perseverance
    Posted 7 months ago #
  17. teddys dad

    mod
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    @hrk1
    please don't get me wrong. i am not trying to be overly critical of the pff. like you, i applaud their efforts to get things moving and indeed since the institution of new management, much good has been happening - see this link for example :

    http://ladrido.net/2011/05/08/beyond-the....ind-the-scenes/

    this very informative blog is done by a guy named bonnie ladrido who has helped me personally and the kids on our school teams to see the azkals live. bonnie is a tireless volunteer at the pff, i think he may now also be the treasuror as well.

    to come directly to the point, while much is happening, i just wonder if instead of "ready aim fire" the pff is engaging in "ready fire aim". i am not an expert in football development, but have had the opportunity to work in many major global firms wherein the best results seem to come by first doing a good assessment, followed by a little visioning and planning with some long term goals in mind.

    Again, i applaud the pff for their many activities. i just wonder what the big picture is?

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 7 months ago #
  18. teddys dad

    mod
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    by the way, i used to be a partner in the strategy consulting practice at accenture, where i worked with firms like BDO to help set up their 20 year vision - which according to my friend Nestor Tan, they still use. thus while not an expert at football development, i have been fortunate to work with some very talented people to build their vision for the future. BDO is a good example - a powerful vision with strong strategic intent and solid organizational support achieves results.

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 7 months ago #
  19. HRK1

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 272

    Teddysdad,

    Unfortunately, visionary and strategic framework policies (as it exists amongst big corporations) does not exist Philippines, filipino consciousness or general pinoy culture. Its not because we are lazy to learn or we do not have the capacity to learn...it is because corruption at all levels of society is so in-grained that it is an "enigma wrapped in an iron curtain", then enclosed in concrete and buried at the very bottom of Mindanao trench.

    We are now into 6th generations of pinoy, wherein we believe that "to be better" is better done overseas (hence, we have lots of migrants abroad). Because in PHI, we currently have a cynical belief - why try to change things, why try to be better, why try to do better...because by the time you reach the top, there will be someone who knows someone, that fudge outcomes so that you do not get ahead (but gives them the edge). Why try to better yourself when someone who is less worthy have a "daddy" who knows people and make their kids get an undeserved head start (palakasan).

    Why better yourself when someone of lesser intelligence than you, who came from a good school get ahead. Example: A bottom-end student from richy-rich schools like Ateneo and La Salle will have much better opportunities than someone who is a top student from Jose Rizal Public High School.

    Let me give you an example of why vision and strategic intent is not part of how pinoys do things: Gilas II

    We all agree that Basketball is THE pinoy sport (if you asked someone from metro-manila). We have been playing BB for more than 100 years. We are always the No.1 ranked BB team in SEA (as a matter of fact, PHI have won the gold medal - bar one - in all SEAG BB. We are currently, No.4 in Asia.)

    And yet through out the years we've had ad hoc way of developing BB. In the early 80's, an American coach (Ron Jacobs) was hired with the task to win the ABC. So, what did Ron Jacobs do...he naturalised 8 Americans (5 Afro American and 3 Caucasians). The only pinoy in that team was Hector Calma (who until this day refused to be interviewed about the matter).

    Even with Gilas I, we still needed a naturalised Afro-American in the team (Marcus Douthit). Now that Gilas I finished 4th in the FIBA Asian Championships, Samahang Basketbol Pilipinas is now planning for Gilas II.

    Now (not many pinoys will understand what I am about to say), by virtue of the existence of a Gilas development team, it means that we have not progressed BB in PHI...specially for a country who have played BB for more than 100 years (I believe we are the second oldest country to play BB, apart from USA).

    What do I expect after 100 years...well I expect strong and well established foundations (at all level of the game from juniors, youth, seniors), progression, succession plan (which are all part a vision statement and strategic intent). But after 100 years, we planned Gilas I for 3 years, play them, then plan for Gilas II (which also have a finite shelf life - until the next FIBA championship).

    Example: Brazil Football Team. Brazil have been playing football for more than 100 years. They do not plan for a team everytime there is a world cup. After 100 years of existence, a brazilian squad is always assembled at the ready, prepared and raring to go (regardless if their players are in the local Brazilian league or in Europe). An established continuation / succession plan is the basis of their success.

    Example: A young Pele emerged, eventually an ageing Pele retired, succeeded buy Junga, succeeded by Zico, succeeded Aldair, succeeded by Romario, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and I dare say this will continue on for a long time. With most developed football countries, a star player emerges, reach his peak, retire then another emerging star will replace him.

    Now, this sort of succession plan does not exist in BB which is the sport in-grained in pinoy mentality, then how do you expect it to exist in emerging sports trying to get started in PHI (ie football, rugby union, etc etc).

    Teddysdad, your intentions in promoting football in PHI is honourable and commendable (same goes to pinoy football afficionados), but a western concept of vision statement and strategic planning is very foreign.

    Just remember, there is one rule in doing business in PHI. If it earns money...then continue doing it. If it doesn't earn money then go to another business that will. Trying analyse, re-structure, re-vision your vision statement or strategise is a waste of time.

    "Do or do not. There is no try" (Master Yoda)
    Posted 7 months ago #
  20. teddys dad

    mod
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 487

    @hrk... interesting stuff, need to think about all this stuff a bit. I understand that sometimes things which work in some segments of society (ie business) don't work in others (ie sports). However I still feel it is good for the PFF to share their insight, thinking, and progress in a more organized and substantive way than by postings on blogs and forums.

    In any case, on a more positive note, I saw on another forum (and mentioned earlier in this thread) that we would be seeing some help from Germany in the form of a Mr. Krautzen Ekhardt, see the excerpt below. Does anyone know if he has arrived here yet?

    *****
    Football fed focuses on coaches' training
    MANILA, Philippines - Aside from beefing up the Azkals team with high-level players, the Philippines Football Federation is also looking to enhance the skills of local coaches to boost the overall development of the sport in the country.

    Coach Michael Weiss reported that during his recent vacation in Germany, he has made arrangements with the German Football Association (DFB) for four Filipino coaches to attend a C license course in Koblenz.

    “We can send four coaches from the Philippines, amongst them Yanti Barsales and Edsel Bracamonte, to go for a three-week intensive C license course from the German FA in Koblenz,” Weiss said.

    At the same time, the DFB also agreed to bring a technical adviser – Krautzen Ekhardt – to the Philippines by October to assess the grassroots and youth development programs here, in preparation for a longer program.

    “He will go to all the provinces and check football centers and schools, and make analysis, present it to the PFF and DFB in order to bring a (long term) technical adviser for two to four years starting next year,” Weiss said.
    *****

    "Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning,
    studying, sacrifice and most of all, love of what you are doing
    or learning to do." Pele
    Posted 6 months ago #

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